Hey, all. Be nice! Marla is good people. We have disagreed on the issue of the authenticity of the emails, and it looks like we still disagree. Further, from my understanding of her comment, her objection isn't that the emails are fake, but the manner in which they were secured. Again, we disagree on that, but disagreement is fine! After all, this isn't Twitter!
I appreciate that sentiment, and I love that about the readership and authors on Substack, so I will be nice ;) That said, dismissing Greenwald on this particular sort of issue - just like dismissing the firing of the Burisma investigator, as basically a highly ethical act by Biden (Ha!) - reveals an unwillingness to contend with truths that counter a persons already settled mind.
You leave out ablot of details and repeat a false and debunked report.
Shokin was not corrupt himself but became a scapegoat to cover up the actual endemic corruption he was trying to address.
Shokin was investigating Burisma which has been documented. His investigations wer being impeded by corrupt officials with ties to Birisma's owner many of whom served on the US backed "anti-corruption" agency.
Shokin's replacement not only didn't investigate Burisma he dropped all pending investigations and gave them a sweetheart deal on their tax evasion case.
Burisma greatly benefited from Shokin's removal and replacement.
And we also know through FOIA documents Burisma was actively lobbying our state department before Biden issued his ultimatum that resulted in Shokin's firing.
You keep repeating things that echo long ago debunked MSM stories.
The two major forces seeking to Remove Shokin were a Sorros funded think Tank and the Biden run Ukraine group in the FBI.
Yes the "international community applauded" - why would you expect otherwise ? The EU grandpoobahs will be happy to celebrate with Biden and Sorros get what they want.
What does it take in the form of evidence for you to grasp you are being played ?
It is not difficult to list Trump's actual accomplishments.
Biden has none.
If we include Covid among Trumps failures - Biden is actually doing worse - even though he was handed a vaccine.
Biden took office with the wind at his back. With everyone expecting improvement on all fronts.
Instead Tensions with China are actually higher - not because Biden is tough, but specifically because he is NOT, and there is serious concerns that Xi will use Biden's weakness as an excuse to expand Chinese influence - and possibly even invade Taiwan.
Afghanistan was a disaster in many ways - some aspects of that were inevitable, but not all. It is hard to compare what might have been, but few beleive Trump would have botched withdrawing as badly.
No matter what you beleive about immigration - the southern border is a mess under Biden. All the things the left complained about under Trump are WORSE under Biden - as well as all the other issues.
Biden inherited a strong and growing economy - all indicators rising.
We now have the highest inflation in many decades, and the threat of 70s style stagflation which required a recession to clear.
And Biden has put blundering incompetents in charge throughout our government.
Ugh. I wanted to learn something new from that article you posted. It mimics Biden’s campaign statements. Would you put a lot of weight if my sources were Rudy Giuliani and Steve Bannon?! Lol. The piece also cites WaPo story which uses unnamed sources only; cites NYT piece citing only unnamed sources; cites citizen activists “with knowledge of the matter”. Here I am, unconvinced, left wanting still.
Point conceded ;). I saw those and left them out. I feel most political activists lack credibility due to their natures as ideologues. But let’s call it what it really was - confirmation bias LOL. Just playing, but my point of contention w you can be easily summarized: I think The Biden family traded on their name and his authority we voters lent him. He enriched himself and those around him, not breaking news for a pol, granted. And I don’t believe any of the flimsy home-team stories that counter the claim. You’re a game opponent on this issue nonetheless. Take it easy
It is not "named people" that are your fundimental problem,
it is actual FACTS.
You say Shokin dumped the Burisma case - but it is very well documented - including emails between Hunter's law firm and the state department that Shokin was actively investigating Burisma at the time he was fired.
You do not seem to be able to distinguish between self serving words and actual facts and evidence.
First do you actually doubt at this time that the hard drives are from Hunter Biden's laptops ? That has been fairly well established in multiple ways.
Are you claiming that some unknown portion of the contents is forged ?
So far absolutely nothing from the laptops has been successfully challenged.
There are emails that claim meeting took place - for some we have photos of the meetings, for others we have the same email made public by someone else on the email chain.
Can you identify a specific allegation based on information from the laptop that has not yet been corroborated ?
You say there are gaping holes in "the laptop conspiracy theory"
What holes and what conspiracy theory.
Not only has the laptop hard drives been pretty well verified as Hunters Multiple ways, but we know there is a third laptop floating arround - or do you think that video is fake ?
The only "conspiracy theory" with holes, is the claim that this is all russian disinformation. There is ZERO evidence of that.
Should we take everything fromt he laptop as gospel ? certainly not. People lie and spin in their emails.
But it is pretty reasonable to conclude at this point that the emails and documents are authentic.
I remember back when I thought the internet was actually going to provide people with information that would help us gain deeper understanding of issues and make better decisions. But it turns out people are blind to information they don't want to hear.
The very idea of Hunter Biden being paid big money to sit on the board of a Ukrainian gas company reeks of corruption. The Ukrainian oligarchs obviously thought they were getting something for their money. What could it have been?
At this point, virtually NO ONE is denying the authenticity of the emails - not even Hunter himself - yet this commenter still clings to the myth orchestrated by democratic operatives and their lackeys in the press just prior to the election last October. This is why our politics are broken. People simply "hear what the want to hear, and disregard the rest."
There is NOTHING in that "factcheck" link that challenges the authenticy of the emails.
All this "fact check" attempts to do is paint the "meeting" refered to in a benign light.
I think the "fact check" is so much wishful thinking. But even if I am wrong and the meeting is correct - Wapo has actually CONFIRMED that the email is authentic.
AGAIN - at this time NO ONE is denying their authenticity,
YOUR article merely claims the meeting referenced was inconsequential.
That is a separate question, from the authenticity of the laptop contents themself.
It is near certain that in tens of thousands of emails - most will be inconsequential.
It is near certain that a FEW will be misunderstood by outsiders.
Maybe this is one.
But the damning evidence against the Biden crime family does not collapse because one meeting might have been innocuous.
I read the article. It does not call into question the veracity of the email to which it refers. At best, it downplays the significance of the meet and greet at the restaurant in which Biden is said in the email to have appeared. And the quote that unnamed "officials" who worked for Biden said the meeting never took place is as worthless as the paper it's written on. Has Biden himself ever publicly denied that he was there? Of course not. That's all you need to know.
Questioning whether Hunter had any actual influence over his father or whether Joe's actions on Ukraine were based on corrupt motives is not proof that the emails are fake. Guiliani's involvement is not a red flag, it's a red herring. The FBI has had the hard drive for two years and has never denied its authenticity. You are engaging in the Dan Rather defense, only in reverse. Rather tried to defend his reporting on an indisputably forged letter regarding Bush's National Guard service on the grounds that the substance of the letter was true. You're defending indisputably real emails by arguing that the underlying theme within the emails - that Hunter had influence with his father - is not true. Flawed logic either way. I agree that the emails do not prove that Joe is corrupt, but they sure prove Hunter's sleaze. For deep dive reporting on that, check out https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-biden-family-legacy-11603409528?mod=article_inline.
Joe's conduct as described by him proves he is corrupt.
There is ZERO doubt he used his power as VP to fire Shoking.
There is ZERO doubt his son was actively involved in Ukraine, and Burisma, and that Joe KNEW that.
Those alone required Biden to disengage from matters that intersected with his son. There are numerous emails fromt he state department to the VP's office stating exactly that.
Either Hunter had to disconnect from Ukraine, or Joe did.
Otherwise Joe was in violation of Federal Ethics laws.
That tiny part of the Biden corruption story is sufficient.
And indesputable.
All the rest - and there is lots, is just tons of icing on the cake.
Is every single allegation of corruption proven beyond any doubt at all ? Certainly not.
I would further note that we are not seeking to convict Joe in court.
The standard of proof for media stories and for voters is much lower.
Lol Just dismisses the journalist with the most credibility on earth when it comes to authenticating caches of docs and emails. Marla Hughes must have some well placed sources haha. Greenwald was a principal in authenticating Wikileaks docs, Edward Snowden docs (the largest such cache in history), and a trove of documents related to Brazilian corruption and scandal.
It’s a close call, but I’ll believe Greenwald over Marla.
With respect to Snowden - what he released is the actual evidence that Clapper lied to congress - repeatedly - a claim that is now nearly universally agreed on.
Further Snowden's releases provided hackers all over with the NSA and CIA hacking tools.
Clearly the US government considers Snowden's information meaningful - he will be sent to jail for the rest of his life if he returns to the US.
You may think what you want regarding Assange - but again the US is still seeking to extradite and prosecute him. That is pretty strong evidence that he has provided authentic information.
This is actually quite important.
There were myriads of leaks during the Trump administration - few of which were prosecutable.
Do you know why not ? Because they were false.
It is not a crime for someone - govenrment employee or not to provide FALSE information to the press - that would violate national security laws if True.
If the information from Assange and Snowden was fake or meaningless, neither would face prosecution.
Well, you’re the authority then! Your recap of what was revealed by Snowden via Greenwald is so reductive and simplistic I’m not going to argue it. Using asterisks doesn’t convey the authority you may hope it does. You’re not the only one whose closely studied those events, and you’re making the same case the intelligence community made.
You are making the same error as the Russian disinformation claim.
There never was evidence the information from the laptops was russian disinformation.
Glenn Greenwald does an excellent job of nothing in October of 2020 that by journalistic standards in use for decades the Hunter Biden laptop information was verified.
The claim that Shokin was corrupt is just the same - yes there are sources that a wise person would no longer trust that have repeatedly made that claim.
But there is no evidence, and in fact if you bother to check into it there is plenty of evidence that Shokin was not corrupt. He is now living a modest life on a government pension. He has no wealthy patrons. He has no high life style. There is no evidence that he has ever been bought.
I would suggest that maybe you should get better informed - just as there is no actual evidence that anything from the laptops is russian disinformation - there is also no actual evidence that Shokin was a crook.
There is absolutely no evidence Shokin was a "crook" but plenty of evidence of corruption by his replacement who dropped all pursuit of Burisma and gave them a ridiculously light fine and forgave the back taxes they owed when settling their proven tax evasion case.
Burisma's owner got exactly what he wanted with Shokin's repalcement.
He also got a good return on hiring Hunter Biden.
Not only has it been proven Shokin was investigating Burisma and had seized assets he was being actively impeded by corrupt Ukrainian officials...Burisma was actively lobbying our state department using Hunter Biden's name for access before Joe Biden demanded Shokin's removal.
And in spite all the reports of "international consensus" regarding Shokin...which by the way were regarding events beyond Shokin's authority or control...not a single other country ever accuses Shokin of corruption or demanded his dismissal.
Hey, all. Be nice! Marla is good people. We have disagreed on the issue of the authenticity of the emails, and it looks like we still disagree. Further, from my understanding of her comment, her objection isn't that the emails are fake, but the manner in which they were secured. Again, we disagree on that, but disagreement is fine! After all, this isn't Twitter!
I appreciate that sentiment, and I love that about the readership and authors on Substack, so I will be nice ;) That said, dismissing Greenwald on this particular sort of issue - just like dismissing the firing of the Burisma investigator, as basically a highly ethical act by Biden (Ha!) - reveals an unwillingness to contend with truths that counter a persons already settled mind.
You leave out ablot of details and repeat a false and debunked report.
Shokin was not corrupt himself but became a scapegoat to cover up the actual endemic corruption he was trying to address.
Shokin was investigating Burisma which has been documented. His investigations wer being impeded by corrupt officials with ties to Birisma's owner many of whom served on the US backed "anti-corruption" agency.
Shokin's replacement not only didn't investigate Burisma he dropped all pending investigations and gave them a sweetheart deal on their tax evasion case.
Burisma greatly benefited from Shokin's removal and replacement.
And we also know through FOIA documents Burisma was actively lobbying our state department before Biden issued his ultimatum that resulted in Shokin's firing.
You keep repeating things that echo long ago debunked MSM stories.
The two major forces seeking to Remove Shokin were a Sorros funded think Tank and the Biden run Ukraine group in the FBI.
Yes the "international community applauded" - why would you expect otherwise ? The EU grandpoobahs will be happy to celebrate with Biden and Sorros get what they want.
What does it take in the form of evidence for you to grasp you are being played ?
No we can not agree on that.
It is well documented that Shokin's firing came immediately before previously scheduled interviews by Shoking of Hunter Biden regarding Burisma.
Shokin was fired because he WAS slowly building a case against Burisma.
Hey Marla how's that Biden vote working out for ya!
Really ?
It is not difficult to list Trump's actual accomplishments.
Biden has none.
If we include Covid among Trumps failures - Biden is actually doing worse - even though he was handed a vaccine.
Biden took office with the wind at his back. With everyone expecting improvement on all fronts.
Instead Tensions with China are actually higher - not because Biden is tough, but specifically because he is NOT, and there is serious concerns that Xi will use Biden's weakness as an excuse to expand Chinese influence - and possibly even invade Taiwan.
Afghanistan was a disaster in many ways - some aspects of that were inevitable, but not all. It is hard to compare what might have been, but few beleive Trump would have botched withdrawing as badly.
No matter what you beleive about immigration - the southern border is a mess under Biden. All the things the left complained about under Trump are WORSE under Biden - as well as all the other issues.
Biden inherited a strong and growing economy - all indicators rising.
We now have the highest inflation in many decades, and the threat of 70s style stagflation which required a recession to clear.
And Biden has put blundering incompetents in charge throughout our government.
Really? How. How is it better. Can’t wait to see this.
Ugh. I wanted to learn something new from that article you posted. It mimics Biden’s campaign statements. Would you put a lot of weight if my sources were Rudy Giuliani and Steve Bannon?! Lol. The piece also cites WaPo story which uses unnamed sources only; cites NYT piece citing only unnamed sources; cites citizen activists “with knowledge of the matter”. Here I am, unconvinced, left wanting still.
Point conceded ;). I saw those and left them out. I feel most political activists lack credibility due to their natures as ideologues. But let’s call it what it really was - confirmation bias LOL. Just playing, but my point of contention w you can be easily summarized: I think The Biden family traded on their name and his authority we voters lent him. He enriched himself and those around him, not breaking news for a pol, granted. And I don’t believe any of the flimsy home-team stories that counter the claim. You’re a game opponent on this issue nonetheless. Take it easy
It is not "named people" that are your fundimental problem,
it is actual FACTS.
You say Shokin dumped the Burisma case - but it is very well documented - including emails between Hunter's law firm and the state department that Shokin was actively investigating Burisma at the time he was fired.
You do not seem to be able to distinguish between self serving words and actual facts and evidence.
I took her comment as saying don't believe the emails because of the source.
Why not ?
First do you actually doubt at this time that the hard drives are from Hunter Biden's laptops ? That has been fairly well established in multiple ways.
Are you claiming that some unknown portion of the contents is forged ?
So far absolutely nothing from the laptops has been successfully challenged.
There are emails that claim meeting took place - for some we have photos of the meetings, for others we have the same email made public by someone else on the email chain.
Can you identify a specific allegation based on information from the laptop that has not yet been corroborated ?
You say there are gaping holes in "the laptop conspiracy theory"
What holes and what conspiracy theory.
Not only has the laptop hard drives been pretty well verified as Hunters Multiple ways, but we know there is a third laptop floating arround - or do you think that video is fake ?
The only "conspiracy theory" with holes, is the claim that this is all russian disinformation. There is ZERO evidence of that.
Should we take everything fromt he laptop as gospel ? certainly not. People lie and spin in their emails.
But it is pretty reasonable to conclude at this point that the emails and documents are authentic.
I remember back when I thought the internet was actually going to provide people with information that would help us gain deeper understanding of issues and make better decisions. But it turns out people are blind to information they don't want to hear.
The very idea of Hunter Biden being paid big money to sit on the board of a Ukrainian gas company reeks of corruption. The Ukrainian oligarchs obviously thought they were getting something for their money. What could it have been?
At this point, virtually NO ONE is denying the authenticity of the emails - not even Hunter himself - yet this commenter still clings to the myth orchestrated by democratic operatives and their lackeys in the press just prior to the election last October. This is why our politics are broken. People simply "hear what the want to hear, and disregard the rest."
Did you read your own link ?
There is NOTHING in that "factcheck" link that challenges the authenticy of the emails.
All this "fact check" attempts to do is paint the "meeting" refered to in a benign light.
I think the "fact check" is so much wishful thinking. But even if I am wrong and the meeting is correct - Wapo has actually CONFIRMED that the email is authentic.
AGAIN - at this time NO ONE is denying their authenticity,
YOUR article merely claims the meeting referenced was inconsequential.
That is a separate question, from the authenticity of the laptop contents themself.
It is near certain that in tens of thousands of emails - most will be inconsequential.
It is near certain that a FEW will be misunderstood by outsiders.
Maybe this is one.
But the damning evidence against the Biden crime family does not collapse because one meeting might have been innocuous.
I read the article. It does not call into question the veracity of the email to which it refers. At best, it downplays the significance of the meet and greet at the restaurant in which Biden is said in the email to have appeared. And the quote that unnamed "officials" who worked for Biden said the meeting never took place is as worthless as the paper it's written on. Has Biden himself ever publicly denied that he was there? Of course not. That's all you need to know.
Questioning whether Hunter had any actual influence over his father or whether Joe's actions on Ukraine were based on corrupt motives is not proof that the emails are fake. Guiliani's involvement is not a red flag, it's a red herring. The FBI has had the hard drive for two years and has never denied its authenticity. You are engaging in the Dan Rather defense, only in reverse. Rather tried to defend his reporting on an indisputably forged letter regarding Bush's National Guard service on the grounds that the substance of the letter was true. You're defending indisputably real emails by arguing that the underlying theme within the emails - that Hunter had influence with his father - is not true. Flawed logic either way. I agree that the emails do not prove that Joe is corrupt, but they sure prove Hunter's sleaze. For deep dive reporting on that, check out https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-biden-family-legacy-11603409528?mod=article_inline.
Joe's conduct as described by him proves he is corrupt.
There is ZERO doubt he used his power as VP to fire Shoking.
There is ZERO doubt his son was actively involved in Ukraine, and Burisma, and that Joe KNEW that.
Those alone required Biden to disengage from matters that intersected with his son. There are numerous emails fromt he state department to the VP's office stating exactly that.
Either Hunter had to disconnect from Ukraine, or Joe did.
Otherwise Joe was in violation of Federal Ethics laws.
That tiny part of the Biden corruption story is sufficient.
And indesputable.
All the rest - and there is lots, is just tons of icing on the cake.
Is every single allegation of corruption proven beyond any doubt at all ? Certainly not.
I would further note that we are not seeking to convict Joe in court.
The standard of proof for media stories and for voters is much lower.
This person does not even understand how Emails work. This level of ignorance is how Democrats have been able to get away with all these lies.
Lol Just dismisses the journalist with the most credibility on earth when it comes to authenticating caches of docs and emails. Marla Hughes must have some well placed sources haha. Greenwald was a principal in authenticating Wikileaks docs, Edward Snowden docs (the largest such cache in history), and a trove of documents related to Brazilian corruption and scandal.
It’s a close call, but I’ll believe Greenwald over Marla.
With respect to Snowden - what he released is the actual evidence that Clapper lied to congress - repeatedly - a claim that is now nearly universally agreed on.
Further Snowden's releases provided hackers all over with the NSA and CIA hacking tools.
Clearly the US government considers Snowden's information meaningful - he will be sent to jail for the rest of his life if he returns to the US.
You may think what you want regarding Assange - but again the US is still seeking to extradite and prosecute him. That is pretty strong evidence that he has provided authentic information.
This is actually quite important.
There were myriads of leaks during the Trump administration - few of which were prosecutable.
Do you know why not ? Because they were false.
It is not a crime for someone - govenrment employee or not to provide FALSE information to the press - that would violate national security laws if True.
If the information from Assange and Snowden was fake or meaningless, neither would face prosecution.
Well, you’re the authority then! Your recap of what was revealed by Snowden via Greenwald is so reductive and simplistic I’m not going to argue it. Using asterisks doesn’t convey the authority you may hope it does. You’re not the only one whose closely studied those events, and you’re making the same case the intelligence community made.
You could not be more wrong Marla
Who was the author's source? Emails have recipients.
You are making the same error as the Russian disinformation claim.
There never was evidence the information from the laptops was russian disinformation.
Glenn Greenwald does an excellent job of nothing in October of 2020 that by journalistic standards in use for decades the Hunter Biden laptop information was verified.
The claim that Shokin was corrupt is just the same - yes there are sources that a wise person would no longer trust that have repeatedly made that claim.
But there is no evidence, and in fact if you bother to check into it there is plenty of evidence that Shokin was not corrupt. He is now living a modest life on a government pension. He has no wealthy patrons. He has no high life style. There is no evidence that he has ever been bought.
I would suggest that maybe you should get better informed - just as there is no actual evidence that anything from the laptops is russian disinformation - there is also no actual evidence that Shokin was a crook.
There is absolutely no evidence Shokin was a "crook" but plenty of evidence of corruption by his replacement who dropped all pursuit of Burisma and gave them a ridiculously light fine and forgave the back taxes they owed when settling their proven tax evasion case.
Burisma's owner got exactly what he wanted with Shokin's repalcement.
He also got a good return on hiring Hunter Biden.
Not only has it been proven Shokin was investigating Burisma and had seized assets he was being actively impeded by corrupt Ukrainian officials...Burisma was actively lobbying our state department using Hunter Biden's name for access before Joe Biden demanded Shokin's removal.
And in spite all the reports of "international consensus" regarding Shokin...which by the way were regarding events beyond Shokin's authority or control...not a single other country ever accuses Shokin of corruption or demanded his dismissal.
Wow - Senators note the corruption of one of the most corrupt govenrments in the world!
You still are clueless. I am not aware of anyone that does not accept that the Ukraine govenrment has been for a very long time incredibly corrupt.
Proving that is a trivial excercise.
Shokin is not identified ANYWHERE in your Senate press release.
The ISSUE is was Shokin Corrupt.
Your IT article references Shokin but it provides no EVIDENCE that he was corrupt.
I would note it further references the same anti corruption group you have fixated on.
Clearly you have never read 1984 nor have a concept of newspeak.
I was once a member of the ACLU - when they lived up to their name.
Today they are an active force AGAINST Civil Liberties.
This is a common problem with those on the left - your curiosity is shallow.
All that is needed to get you to vote, march even become violent for a cause is a good name.
I will bet you would vigorously fight for the "All Puppies Go To Heaven" law - without bothering to find out that it mandated euthanizing all dogs.
FACTS, not words.